February 19, 2008 11:02 AM PST

Blu-ray victory means royalties, royalties, royalties

Forget about customer satisfaction or superiority of image quality. The real issue in the war between Blu-ray and HD DVD was about royalties.

With the competition gone, the Blu-ray consortium now has the opportunity to persuade PC makers and consumer electronics makers to adopt Blu-ray drives as their optical drives of choice. It will also get studios and disc makers to deliver Blu-ray discs to consumers. And every time one of those drives or discs leaves a factory, the Blu-ray Disc Association will get a royalty.

The numbers add up quickly. Look at DVD, for example. To make a DVD player legally, manufacturers recently had to pay around $4 per player or drive, according to some estimates. A few years ago, those fees were around $15 to $20. Fees get paid every time a DVD drive gets included in a PC. Nearly every PC in the world has a DVD drive these days and roughly 250 million PCs get shipped every year. Companies that legally make DVD discs also pay fees. The DVD6C licensing group dropped the per disc fee in January to 4 cents per disc. Years ago, it was 7.5 cents per disc. Then there are verification fees.

The royalties, in fact, led to what Chinese leaders call the "DVD mistake," said Zhisheng Niu, vice dean of the school of information sciences at Tsinghua University, in an interview with CNET News.com last year. Because of intense competition, many Chinese companies have lost money, or just broke even, on selling DVD players. The people that have made money, he added, were the patent holders. Chinese manufacturers often got around the licensing issues problem by making illegal players. (The DVD Forum eliminated the royalty for DVD players made and sold in China for a few years, but a lot of those systems ended up overseas.)

The royalties are one of the prime reasons China has pushed for its own optical standard.

"We have to develop our own standards so that we can have our own industry," said Niu. "We have a big DVD industry, but we are probably losing money. The market is big enough so that we can have our own industry."

Now, remember. Niu isn't some pirate off the street. He's one of the chief academics at China's leading university. That gives you a gauge on the feelings there.

The same went for CDs. Philips got about 1.8 cents per CD disc while Sony got about 1.2 cents per disc, according to analysts estimates. When some of the patents expired in 2001, Philips said its royalty revenue would drop by about $42 million. Collecting royalties is a great business.

The Blu-ray camp will likely move more cautiously than the DVD Forum in granting licenses to player and disc manufacturers, said Richard Doherty, principal analyst at the Envisioneering Group, adding that one of the reasons that the studios liked Blu-ray over HD DVD was it is probably easier to set up a pirate HD DVD shop.

Gartner analyst Van Baker, however, said he doesn't believe that Blu-ray will be as lucrative as DVD. For one thing, Blu-ray will have to compete against digital download services, which could prove popular with consumers. Second, the studios have been knocking down the royalty rates.

"This is what a lot of the negotiations were about," Baker said. "My suspicion is that this is not going to be as good as it was for DVD."

We don't know the royalty standards from Blu-ray. The consortium hasn't been aggressive about collecting them yet, but it will likely move into action once the industry gets moving.

The royalties will be split among several players, said Doherty.

Blu-ray has a lot of grandfathers. A lot of people call it a Sony standard but by our estimates Sony doesn't even have 30 percent of the IP," Doherty said. The top four intellectual property holders are likely Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, and Warner.

Royalties were one of the primary reasons that it took so long to get manufacturers to come out with players that could handle both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs. Manufacturers with dual-format players have to license technology from both camps, which boosts costs.

"There are so many players. There is a lot of intellectual that went into this, and companies like Philips and Toshiba and Sony will all look for a return on investment," Rudy Provoost, the then-CEO of Philips Electronics told News.com in 2006. "That is what makes it a challenging debate. It's like the CD days. Everybody looks for a fair reward."

When a combo player did come out, it ended up being more expensive than buying separate Blu-ray and HD DVD players.

Originally posted at News Blog
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 21 comments (Page 1 of 2)
BLU-RAY WINS. HD DVD now an expensive door-stop
by SCAZMarketing February 19, 2008 11:59 AM PST
Amazingly, an article which explains the frustration from layman's terms. My uncle is 88 years old...hear what he has to say about this:

http://www.socoolaz.com/article.cfm?articleID=30121
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Hollow Victory
by bl105 February 20, 2008 7:20 AM PST
As soon as hi def downloads became available through Apple TV, blu-ray & HDDVD immediately became junk technology. I am currently renting regular DVDs thru Netflix but I will make it plain to them that unless they make HD downloads available SOON, there are plenty of other services on the block (Apple, Amazon, etc). With blu-ray players & discs being laughably expensive who wants to rush out and buy what is already legacy technology.
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re: Hollow Victory
by Staszek February 20, 2008 9:46 AM PST
I love how everyone thinks that digital downloads are just around the corner. For people like myself and other techie people, sure we have already started on that train. But do you realize that more then half the US doesnt even have highspeed internet yet how are they getting their movies? Yes Digital downloads will eventually replace the disc formats, but not entirely, and it will be some time before it makes a huge dent. Believe it or not people still like to own media, and many people dont trust digital downloading yet, for rentals yes, for something to own no.

Blu Ray has a few good years ahead of it before the masses go over to digital downloads.
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If you think digital downloads is the future ...
by mman74 February 21, 2008 6:54 AM PST
Stop moaning and get all the HD movies you want over download then. Blu-ray is here and now and mainstream and looks great. For those that still think HD-DVD is the better medium - get over it!
Yes, there is always better technology down the line. Those people who are waiting for full HD over broadband (for gods sake even if this did happen you still have to store the movies and HDs can easily get wiped and still cost a lot of money - 10 movies on a HDD drive wow economical - and who doesn't love the box and packaging), or perhaps holographic discs, or some medium that involves quarks or quasers or whatver - I just have one thing to say. Life is for living now - live it. Blu-ray has top movies with fantastic picture quality and surround sound that makes a first rate home theater experience on your HDTV. We are lovin' it and we are buying it.
These people sound like those kids at school, that give you a look of disdain as you get your PSP out during recess and say "Pah, I'm waiting for the PSP-6 MEGA-ULTRA EDITION to come out!", when what they really mean is "Mummy didn't get me anything for Christmas". Go on and wait then, but Sony have a winner and they too are lovin it, with or without you.
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Make hay while the sun shines for 20 minutes..
by quality4me February 21, 2008 8:24 AM PST
Alright I'll start with the basics. I have a 42 inch LCD, 720P. I also have close to 500 DVD movies. I own a Playstation 3 which is upconverting my DVD's to 720P. The movies look spectacular. There are thousands of people just like me, we arent going to buy into blu-ray. Why would we? I think this entire war and this next gen DVD is bogus. You know what it reminds me of, Mini Disc players and the CD burner. People are not going to start rebuying movies for the sake of blu-ray, I'm buying DVD's like crazy right now 7-10 dollars, and they are in perfect high def, ooh yeah and they have bonus features. And to top it all off I have a 500 dvd start. People will argue with me that it isnt as good of a picture, well the human eye can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 42 inch tv 15 feet away, and the upconverter on the PS3 is extrodinary you cant tell the difference on my tv between spiderman 3 blu ray or spiderman 3 DVD upconvert, execpt the additional content.. And I'm almost future proof, I can put my DVD's on Hard Drive and view them in 1080p if I want later on. The blu-ray is a non permant fixture, maybe 3 years. Why pay 35$ for a cooler case?
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You cant tell the difference?
by ianim8 February 21, 2008 1:56 PM PST
Please check again. I work with this every day.
Yes I can tell the difference on my PS3 and 42inch Panasonic as far as upscalers vs actual BD.
Im not calling you a liar but I would bet my career on it.
Folks just give it up already.
Oh yeah for those that beleive they can go on without buying into BD, well have fun with your SD version of LotR ;)
I like my chances with the BD future :)
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People Who Say They don't Need Blu-Ray...
by Starfires February 22, 2008 12:59 AM PST
... will be the same ones renting and buying them in the future, when it really takes a hold. Of course you don't 'need' more quality, but when it gets as available as a DVD and you have the big TV to appreciate it on, why not just go for it?!
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China and "their" format
by dfichtner February 23, 2008 3:38 PM PST
It makes me want to vomit -- China complaining about having to give any money whatsoever to an overseas company, so they back illegal pirate DVD players as a nation. Thankfully, it sounds like Obama wants to stand up to China as far as the trade imbalance is concerned. It's one of the reasons this long-time Republican will likely vote Democrat this time. I'm tired of the USA bleeding it's weath to countries like China so a few Americans can get richer.
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Temporary Victory
by DocNDnv February 24, 2008 3:25 AM PST
Downloadable movies are the future. Once products like AppleTV are mainstream blue ray will die a quick death. Why buy discs when you can download everything? I need my shelves for something other than plastic cases!
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are you that bored?
by ianim8 February 24, 2008 11:08 AM PST
download yada yada yada..
yes I have to respect others opinions, but come on!!!
I should just leave this alone but everytime someone mentions that they would be happy to download everything it makes me wonder if their even educated enough to make such opinions. first off the studios or provider is not going to let you download and do what you want with the clips. trust me on that. but hey, if someones offering to upload 1080p version of everything then Im all for it...for free of course ;)
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