Old DVD-recorders selling for $1,900
Is this old tech worth $1,900 to you?
DVD-recorders with hard drives may be old technology, but they're commanding astronomical prices on the free market these days. Case in point: We reviewed the Panasonic DMR-EH75V about a year and half ago when it had a list price of $500. If you search for the DMR-EH75H on Amazon, you'll see three resellers (all with reputable ratings) selling them for insane prices:
New DMR-EH75V: $1,895
New DMR-EH75V: $1,899
Used DMR-EH75V: $1,498
Is it just a glitch with Amazon? You might think so, but that's pretty clearly not the case. Jumping over to eBay, we found some recent auctions for the same product.
New Panasonic DMR-EH75V: $750
Refurbished DMR-EH75V: $675
Used DMR-EH75V: $760
Sure, that's less than half of the Amazon prices, but they're still very high. How often does the price of electronics increase after being used for a few years? What's going on here?
The answer is pretty simple--if you know the gritty details of consumer electronics and a little economics. The whole phenomenon is actually easily explained by one simple fact: almost* nobody makes DVD-recorders with built-in hard drives anymore. Just a few years ago, plenty of manufacturers made DVD-recorders with built-in hard drives, but if you walk into a Best Buy or Circuit City today you probably won't find a single unit.
People miss TiVos with DVD-recorders.
(Credit: Humax)Many products types are phased out as consumer interest wanes, but you wouldn't get that impression about DVD-recorders with hard drives--I get lots of e-mail from readers about them and there are active discussions on AVS Forum regarding their scarcity. Many of the older units can function as a DVR without subscription fees, and being able to burn a DVD from the same unit is a killer feature that people still want. And the high prices of these old units tells the whole story: There is still demand for them and the supply is very low. That's why two-year-old tech is being sold for basically 400 percent of the list price.
So why isn't anybody making a DVD-recorder with a hard drive and taking advantage of this underserved market? Nobody knows for sure, but I've read plenty of speculation and conspiracy theories. Some believe subscription DVR companies (such as TiVo and cable companies) have used their weight to restrict these free alternatives. Others claim that copyright holders (TV networks and movie companies) got antsy about people recording high-quality versions of their favorite programs onto a hard drive, especially now that digital ATSC tuners--which are capable of pulling in HD signals--are required on any DVD-recorder that includes a tuner.
Conspiracy theories are fun, but I think it's more likely that the increasingly small market for DVD-recorders with hard drives just wasn't worth it to manufacturers to keep producing them. DVR usage has boomed with cable companies offering them up for low monthly subscription costs, and that has severely limited the market for DVD-recorders with hard drives, which cost more than $500 upfront. It's possible that when manufacturers realized they would have had to spend extra engineering dollars to update the old models with an ATSC tuner, they figured it was time to cut their losses and stop producing the niche product. In fact, when the CNET home theater crew met with the Panasonic engineers and product managers responsible for DVD-recorders earlier this year, we asked them why they stopped making DVD-recorders with hard drives and their reaction was basically, "people still want those?"
So while there are still some very dedicated enthusiasts who are willing to pay big bucks for old DVD-recorders with hard drives, it seems likely that we've seen the last of them as a product category. That's tough luck for those who still want them, but I'm betting a lot of people are going to be checking their gear when they get home to see if they can make a quick thousand bucks.
Do you want to see DVD-recorders with hard drives return? Sound off in the comments.
Additional resources:
AVS Forum's FAQ on DVD Recorders and the Analog to Digital Transition
*We are aware of only two current DVD-recorders with hard drives currently sold in the U.S.: the Philips DVDR3575H and the Polaroid DRA-01601A. We've requested a review sample of the Philips DVDR3575H/37 product several times without any luck, so we're unable to comment on its performance. DVD-recorders with hard drives are also widely available in Canada and outside North America, where the inclusion of an ATSC tuner isn't federally mandated.
Special thanks to reader Errol H. who pointed out the high price DVD-recorders with hard drives are fetching on eBay.
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http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=24856
Not a very well-researched story as written, although the earlier poster may have something regarding copy controls, it may be that some earlier models will permit copying of more media than some recent models.
recording tv programming. The previous generation device, the VCR, did it for
free. Why shouldn't the next. Corporate criminals...
here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/02/panasonic-turns-out-six-new-blu-ray-recorders/#comments
here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/02/panasonic-turns-out-six-new-blu-ray-recorders/#comments
If you already have a computer in your house with a DVD burner, just get a slingbox and use that to push the video to your pc and record. even simpler.
pioneer model at walmart (though it was the last one on the shelf, it had sat for
around 2 or 3 weeks the clerk said) about 2-3 months ago, and it works exactly
as it should. I paid a paltry $300 bucks brand new, and I'm not shelving out the
required $20 a month in fees to the cable company anymore. At the new, easily
available price, it'll have paid for itself in just over a year, and I have the option
of burning shows onto DVD that I used to pay $30-40 a season for.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=24856
I have seen what appear to be new pana models with hard drives in other (PAL) markets and am hoping that they are coming to the US of A after next years CES and that they just couldn't roll out the hard drive machines with the new tuners and the improvements they wanted to make this year...I find it insane that panasonic dealers, help line folks and even people in the industry (writers on CNET)
can't find out when or if the next generation of a product like this is coming out?? It's very odd but certainly explains the prices on ebay and amazon (the later of which I keep checking to see if anyone has a new DMR-EH50 which had the best tuner I think but no DL support I know dream on). Because people who have used these know how great they are and are worried about the availablity of the technology. [Think Tivo with no fee combined with your own almost free (with a little elbow grease) season of LOST on dvd available as it happens -albeit without extras or quite the same picture quality--so I bought the first season later (are you listening corporate giants?)-- many friends of mine appreciated borrowing my homemade dvds and thus got into the show (and others) as a result!] People just don't know if they will be able to buy a new and improved one or not and they're panicking - willing to pay the price to have one now or to have one of the last ones available.
I wouldn't by a dvd recorder from panasonic without a hard drive for any reason unless dvrs (Tivo, cable company) became completely unavailable and my hard drive recorders die. If you have to choose one you obviously keep the hard drive (for you) not the dvd burner (for others and archiving): more capacity, faster scans less clutter and fuss (don't have to have a disc available and in the machine (just have make sure you have space available!)... and with a video capture card and some video editing software on your computer you could burn edited dvds somehow if you really had to. A perfectable combination of products abandoned?? It just doesn't make sense to this guy. I would have though if anything they would have added a recorder to their line that didn't have a burner-just a hard drive! You know what do they call them? Oh yeah, dvr's Tivo's , gee most of those now let you record high-def or two shows at once! And if you could edit the program's commercials out you could feed that to a...DVD recorder! Thus successfully dividing a great product into two good products. Whatever...
I guess it would be better to record tv to a computer (or two) since they didn't really fully realize the dvd/hard drive recorders e.g. improved tuners, amps, adding a keyboard option, not a lot of flexibility setting up the picture sizes and menus etc on the burned dvd's. Plus pana somehow finds it resonable to charge like $270 (out of warranty) for the part alone when replacing the dvd drive?? When for under $40 bucks I can have the latest dvd drive delivered to me and then install it in my computer myself in 10 minutes what's up with that? Speaking of recording tv onto a computer anyone interested would be well advised to checkout PC magazine's Oct 2, 2007 issue page 82 article on automatically recording shows without commercials!! And if you've got the money or the Xbox360 you might find the article on page 86 of October 2007's pcworld magazine about turning your pc into a HD media server rather intriguing.
Panasonic really missed the boat going with dvd recorders without hard drives this year. At least in my case. I'm sure I would have bought one or more (depending on reviews and new capabilitie - one for sure as a back up!) Of course Panasonic also made the best VCR I ever owned with perfect reverse play at 1x speed (perfect for rewinding action in sports programs without fast rewinding which takes you back much too far) great slow motion (perfect for reviewing the play in sports (and other visually interesting things)), perfect picture and they no longer even make a vcr that I know of.
I don't know if they improved the dvd player's picture on the new recorders which was just so-so or added better slow motion or added an intelligent version (or any version) of a zoom-in function all of which I've enjoyed on a "good" player (JVC- though it died after the warranty expired) none of which were available on the Panasonic dvd recorders with or without hard drives...though I do believe you can burn directly to DL disks now which the latest (last?) generation of Panasonic hard drive/dvd recorders could not (they could from the hard drive of course) Sometimes I really hate "PROGRESS" when we could have progress: evolution, improvements, refinements, expanded functionality, user replaceable reasonably priced parts - plug and play anyone? Okay then.
I have a Pioneer DVR531 ($198) and I love that it doesn't require me to keep paying every month... and family love that they can call and ask me to record things onto disc that they want to watch later. (We all have cable, so it's not like they're losing any $$$ here).
I really expected to see a new generation of these with room2room sharing and wireless PC xfer of youtube and net news programs and was really disappointed to see these go away...
See:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,137943-pg,1/article.html
Anyway, they still sell DVD recorders without hard disks, so I really don't see why the copyright holders would care if you can edit their programming accurately or just with a pause button, as long as you are copying it to DVD anyway.
Too bad I bought a European model Panasonic just last night... the DMR-EH65. I got an open-box model for slightly less than what Futureshop's asking for the new Canadian models, and to the best I can tell, this European model will record NTSC as NTSC, play back NTSC as NTSC (but not through the up-converted HDMI output), and operate on 120V 60Hz AC. What it won't do is convert PAL>NTSC or vice versa (without an external converter), tune American TV channels (but then, no analog tuner will in 14 months), or provide TVGUIDE on screen (hallelujah to that!) Also it has a slightly bigger HD (250GB). So I'm still pretty satistfied with my decision, although I'm certainly thinking of Futureshop before I buy another imported model!
- Count Me In
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by coachdubya
January 9, 2008 4:52 PM PST
- Recently went to purchase a DVR with a hard drive and none to be found. ***?
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